Hear from Learn to Trade’s trading floor manager, Adam Truelove and trader coach, Jeff Triganza as they talk to Nest Egg about what blockchain is, the rise of bitcoin and the future for the top 10 alt-coins.

They also tell us about initial coin offering safety and what Learn to Trade has learnt about crypto in the last few years.

Thanks, Adam and Jeff for joining us.

You can stay up-to-date with what Adam, Jeff and Learn To Trade are up to here.

Have an investment story to share? Get in touch at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and you might get featured on the next episode.

Full transcript:

David: Good day and welcome to Nest Egg Podcast. David, here. Joined for this special edition, we're doing CryptoCurrently's podcast this week. Alongside me, no other better gentleman than Adam who's the trading floor manager of APAC. Adam, welcome back.
Adam: Hey, good morning.
David: Also, we've got Jeff Trigenza, who is the trader coach also at learn to trade.
Jeff: Good morning.
David: Jeff, welcome to the team.
Jeff: Thank you very much.
David: We're going to talk about a topic which every man, mate, and his dog are talking about in the pub. That is cryptocurrency, the cryptosphere ...
Jeff: Crypto ...
David: Block chain ...
Jeff: Yeah.
David: All of it. What do you call it these days?
Jeff: "Crypto" seems to have stuck with everybody, doesn't it?
Adam: Yeah, everyone just calls it "crypto" now.
David: It is, isn't it? It's also one of those things they call it ...
Adam: Kryptonite.
David: Yeah! Kryptonite. Crypto-crazy. That's what has happened over the market. We're talking about something which everyone ... In my space has been talking about as well. Something very interesting for a lot of people and it's very mixed opinions across the industry.
People listening out there today would be aligned to financial institutions but there's also a lot of people out there who are not at all and have no idea what we're about to talk about.
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
David: We want to break it down a bit. I think it's always good to refresh what block chain is, what crypto is, and essentially just give people an idea as to where this could potentially go. There's a lot of potential there.
Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. I think with cryptocurrencies, everybody really just calls it, "Bitcoin." I think the first thing, especially for me when I was looking at it originally is, which is the correct terminology, what's the right thing to call it? Bitcoin is just one of the cryptocurrencies. We would say currency, but Eurodollar ...
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: Or the Aussie dollar, or whatever ...
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: Is just one of those currencies. Really, it's the same thing in crypto. Cryptocurrency is obviously the digital form of currency and then Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple ...
Adam: All those top five ones out there ...
Jeff: All those other ones that there are all different types of coins. They're called, "Altcoins."
David: Alt. Altcoins.
Jeff: You know, alternative? Yes. That's probably the first thing to do is to make that distinction if people have no clue what the hell all this stuff is.
Adam: I think the second most Googled question to "What is the meaning of life," is "What is the meaning of Bitcoin," so, that thing is literally ...
David: Oh my god, really?
Adam: It probably would be!
David: Amazing.
Adam: I'd imagine with everyone knowing what it is. Bitcoin is the famous cousin of ...
David: Yeah.
Adam: Cryptocurrency.
David: Yeah.
Adam: It's got the most limelight because it's worth the most.
David: Yeah.
Adam: That attracts investors, it attracts media, it attracts a lot of attention ...
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: When you see things that start from 0.0001 Satoshis up until ...
David: Yeah.
Adam: Thousands, tens of thousands of dollars.
David: Yeah.
Adam: Jeff, I'll bring you into this as well, obviously we don't just want to talk about Bitcoin per se. You're saying there's a lot of altcoins out there as well. There are the top five and they all do different things specifically.
Jeff: Yes, I think there are ... It depends on the day, but I think there are about 1400 altcoins out there now, and it grows. The largest coin by market cap and the smallest coin by opinion is Ethereum. The block chain that they provide actually provides the block chain for other coins. About 50% of the coins that are out there are actually on the Ethereum framework. That's what's set them apart. That's why they're number two.
My personal view with the altcoins is that you really need to look at the top five because the others don't really have any great liquidity. Once you're in a position, it's really quite tough to get out. I look at the chart of all of them together, and it reminds you a little bit of the high tech bubble that happened in the late 90's. You remember after that ... We had a lot of stocks disappear in America. The big ones are still around and they're still going strong.
I think that's what's going to happen with the altcoins is that down the track, you're going to have a lot less of them, but they're going to be a lot stronger and a lot bigger.
David: Yeah, definitely grow. I heard that yesterday as well, a conversation ...
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
David: Someone said from those bubbles, absolute gems come out from it, and you get those diamonds that are still here today such as Amazon.
Jeff: Cisco!
David: Yeah, just huge, huge, huge ...
Jeff: Yeah.
David: Multinational companies now, which, back then, you would've thought, "What is it?"
Jeff: Well, Cisco was a systems provider for the internet, so they're kind of the equivalent of Ethereum.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: You look at Cisco now, $200 a share, it's doing okay.
David: Yeah, and you think of what the reach is as well ...
Jeff: Yeah.
David: In terms of a business ...
Jeff: That does anything.
David: Yeah. They do what they want. That's the beauty of it as well. We're in this amazing transition right now, what comes of a lot of uncertainty also comes of a lot of opportunity. We're looking at this as an opportunity where investors can trade it and get involved in this on a monetary value and on the financial side of things.
Looking at this in the way that people implement this into business and into their lifestyle, give it 10 ... Even maybe less, five years? You'll probably be looking at this as something which is absolutely used ...
Jeff: Oh, and it will be. The first thing with any shift in mode of payment, if you look back over the years when we had currency in its current form ... Before that, we were hard and fast gold and the gold standard with the dollar. Then that didn't happen, the fractal system we're in ... They've really got to get the public buy in first. Still even, people are struggling to find cryptocurrency as a way to pay for stuff.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: It might have a value, et cetera, but that still dials back to a dollar value.
David: Yeah.
Jeff: In hard currency. I say hard currency ... You know, ones and zeroes ...
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: That's all currency is really, in your bank account. They've got to get the public buy in first. You've got to bubble with Bitcoin people to kind of getting into the way of thinking that this is the way for it to go forward.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: Then currency will die eventually and this will be the only way that things are done.
Adam: Currency when it first came out was a limited amount, but then they can create more of it. Where as this is boxed down ... There's only so many Bitcoin codes ...
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: Out there which can be mined over a certain amount of time. I think they want to say by 2020, the last one is actually going to be surfacing onto the market.
Jeff: There's not much new money in Bitcoin that can go ...
Adam: No. No, exactly, right.
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: It's obviously a very competitive market, you can imagine, these days.
Jeff: Yeah. I think I read somewhere somebody told me there's only 1800 new Bitcoins per day in the world.
Adam: Yeah.
Jeff: Everyone's mining it.
Adam: That's not a lot. I know it sounds a lot because it's a lot of money behind it ...
Jeff: Yeah, but it's not a lot ...
Adam: It's not.
Jeff: In a global scheme of things.
Adam: Exactly right. There's absolutely trillions and trillions of dollars on computers ...
Jeff: Absolutely.
Adam: Yeah. That's why Bitcoin is almost coming up to a 10 year span where ... The software needs updating ...
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: That's something which happens with cryptocurrencies. In nine years time, we dub that as old tech. That's why it's become relatively slow, relatively outdated, and relatively expensive to even make a transaction. If you want to buy this cup of coffee on my desk right here, you're going to have to probably spend a lot in fees and transactions to make that happen.
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: The frameworks of what we've got such as new cryptos and new altcoins that are coming out, which have streamlined these issues and making it better. There's constant developments coming forward from this technology, right?
David: Yes.
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
David: That's also something which leads to ... I was saying as well, it just takes one really intelligent person to absolutely maximise this and bring it to the masses for it to become massively adopted.
Jeff: Big time.
David: That's what we're waiting on.
Jeff: Keeping in mind also that a lot of people complain about the one day sale for Bitcoin. If you take a check to a bank in Australia, it still takes five days to clear.
David: Yep.
Jeff: You have to look at it comparatively. Compared to real or fiat currencies, I think it's actually doing okay to start with.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: It's not doing so bad considering there's no central bank that's sitting there managing it.
David: Yeah. You've just got to think as well, by the time it breaks down into multiple different opportunities, how can people use this effectively to actually start using it for transactions?
In the moment, it is looked at something which is generally dubbed as an investment, I'd say. It's more linking closely with such as digital gold or a commodity of that sense, where there's only a limited amount. How can we make it into something that is exclusively accepted worldwide? That's a huge task, because, as we know, every single currency is different in most countries anyway.
Jeff: Exactly.
David: There's a lot of regulation to come into place here. It's still very early adopted into the world.
Jeff: I think the regulation is going to take a lot of the lustre away from it though.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: Although, one of the things people like about this is that it's not regulated. I think the biggest regulation opportunity with altcoins is KYC.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: Know your client stuff that you go to a bank, you need to give your passport or driver's licence. I think that's going to be running through all of the regulators over the next couple of years and I think that will be a really good thing for altcoins. But in terms of more regulation, I don't think it really needs it.
David: Yeah.
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
David: I think you're right there as well.
Jeff: Like you said, the idea is it's not, you know. That's the whole point, right?
David: I think with general ... We looked at 2017 and it had, probably the most growth it's ever had in it's time, especially across the market. We're not just talking Bitcoin here, we're talking across every single altcoin in the market. Driven by hype, driven by news and media. But, also at the same time, that in itself has given access to a lot more people to put their fingers in these pies.
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
David: What comes of that, and with these ... You can send out a tweet from Mr. McAfee or send out a tweet and things will go absolutely gangbusters.
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
David: There's that element of control from these trusted sources. Which, essentially, how trusted is the platform? There's a lot of volatility, I think that's definitely something we should touch on today with our Nest Egg listeners and readers out there. We are, I would say, risk adverse to a degree. Want to maximise opportunity and investments, but we need to be careful about ... We've got 10, 20 years left before retirement. How do we maximise that without going too far into the element of risk?
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
David: That's all coming down to management. Adam, we've had this conversation before.
Adam: Yeah, it always comes down to psychology. You need to learn how to trade properly and learn how to look at things on a technical basis. The price is what dictates the price. The price is key. The bubble with ... And it was a bubble ... It is a bubble, let's put it that way ... With Bitcoin. The rise, and now subsequent fall of that, you can make money from that. It's a social proof trading scenario. The early adopters and the people that have educated themselves in how to invest in the market and what to look for ... The smart people have made a killing on it.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: An absolute killing. Then, come out of the right time of the market, but we have people that don't know that are looking for social proof. They're looking to the people next to them going, "Are you going to do it? Are you going to do it? Oh, well, I'm going to do it. I'm waiting for you to do it. Are you going to do it?" Then everybody jumps in based on they're tapped in to the news and these media platforms that really are controlling the masses. Stealing the money, then the market goes, "Aww. Thanks for that." And takes it away from them.
David: Yeah.
Adam: There's a lot of people that did not do well, you know?
David: Yeah.
Adam: In the last couple of weeks because they waited too long. That is the danger. As long as you know what to do and you're risk managing your entire portfolio ... I read a story of this couple that literally sold everything. They sold their car, their house, absolutely everything. There was photos of them in the Caribbean having a great time because they got in early. They invested everything they had. They're now multi-millionaires. I wonder what's happened in the last couple of weeks to them, though?
David: That's the thing, it's all paper. Paper value, essentially ....
Adam: It still comes back to paper value.
David: It does, yeah.
Adam: So yes, you can do it ... What we're going to witness is a massive transference of wealth. Things that we have now won't be worth that very soon. It's just history. There's no point being in any way scared about this stuff. Grab yourself by the important bits and learn how to do it properly.
David: Yeah.
Adam: It's just education is what's needed.
David: Yeah.
Adam: Pardon everybody, but some balls.
David: Yeah, exactly.
Adam: To take some decisions.
David: I think as well, a lot of people talk about the growth. Where as, savvy investors don't always look at growth, they look at both sides of the sword.
Adam: Yeah.
David: There is a chance when you're on the shore ...
Adam: Look, if I'm talking to billionaire investors, the biggest question that they want to know is not necessarily, "How much is my money going to grow," but, "Is my money going to stay there?"
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: A billionaire does not necessarily look for massive growth. You can give them two, three, four percent over? Awesome. They're more interested in what's your risk profile and how are you going to protect my money? They've already worked hard to get to that level. They want to keep it.
Where as, people lower down in the chain that have got fifty grand, one hundred fifty grand, $500,000 in savings, are not necessarily thinking about, "How can I keep it?" They're just thinking about, how I can grow it.
There's a fundamental shift in psyche around how we look at savings. General advice, not personal advice, obviously. But a mental shift around how we look at our savings and how we grow the money. Where do we put it? Should you expose all of your money? All of your portfolio to cryptocurrency? I think that would be bonkers.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: But, certainly a percentage of it might not be a bad idea.
David: Yeah.
Adam: But, get some good advice around that from somebody that's licenced to give you that.
David: Absolutely. We always preach this as well, and you'll be the same, but get yourself educated about this stuff.
Adam: It's all about education, absolutely.
David: Read the knowledge. The good thing is, there's so much out there. There's a lot of crap, but there's also a lot of really good, viable stuff in there, which can really help you understand what this asset is about.
Adam: Yeah.
David: With this too ...
Adam: It's a great investment. Cryptocurrency on its own is a fantastic investment.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative). When you look at it in terms of what the potential can be. It's great to look at ...
Adam: Yeah.
David: It's exciting as well. A lot of people ...
Adam: It is.
David: Are really ... We're not talking everyone's going to be wanting to become a day trader on this stuff ... But we're looking at this as something where in your portfolio, you break it down into loads of different things.
Adam: Yes.
David: You'll have your bonds, which are extremely safe, or you might have your [inaudible 00:14:38] equities, which are historically proven. You try some new alternatives and also you can get involved in other opportunities that come out on the opportunity. I think it's exciting. It makes investing fun.
Adam: Yes.
David: You also learn a lot more about yourself as an investor through expanding and diversifying through these kind opportunities.
Adam: Yes.
David: I'm not saying go ahead and do it. Like I said, this is no financial advice, but there's opportunities out there to educate yourself by getting stuck in.
Adam: Yes.
David: I think that's what I found personally as well.
Adam: Absolutely. I've got a client called Anthony. He's a real smart cookie. He's been building apps over the years. He got on that train ...
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: And became a millionaire from that. You know, created a few successful apps.
David: Angry Birds.
Adam: Eh?
David: Is that the guy?
Adam: Exactly. Angry Birds. Oh my god. I love that game. Anyway, he rode that ... Very, very smart cookie and he came along and learned how to trade. On the technical side of stuff, he then used that in trading cryptocurrency. It was explosive for him. So again, that's a prime example of get yourself educated in how to understand a price chart and look at the patterns of what the market will do. The market will just repeat itself all the time.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: You'll be laughing all the way to the bank in theory.
Jeff: I think that's one of the things that a lot of people get wrong with cryptos is that they see it as a separate asset class.
Adam: Yeah.
Jeff: Where as ...
Adam: Me myself, I just ...
Jeff: Trading is trading.
Adam: Yes. Anything that's on a chart, you can trade. Same rules apply.
Jeff: Exactly.
Adam: You just need to be careful with the cryptos. The asterisks with cryptos is the volume that goes through the spread. If the spread is one thousand dollars wide, if that was on a currency, we wouldn't take the trade.
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: Same thing applies with cryptos.
Jeff: If you're going to trade it as a CFT or via a broker, does it contrast the difference? That is going to be an expensive way to do it. If you've set yourself up with a digital wallet and you've got your connection and account with the exchange ...
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: Then you can directly deal with the physical asset. I mean that loosely because it's not physical.
Adam: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: The asset itself. That's the way to do it.
Adam: I think going back to accessibility ... For some people out there, they're thinking, "How the hell do we get involved in this kind of thing?" Or "What opportunities are there?" There's so many different financial instruments you can use to do that.
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: Back when I tried to do this ... July last year ... It was a mission. It was so hard to get involved in it. It was almost like I felt like I was breaking the internet.
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: Hacking into these crazy sites trying to get these Bitcoins and stuff like that.
Jeff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: The reality is now that ...
Jeff: It's pretty easy now.
Adam: Yeah. Fast forward to today ...
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: So many opportunities to ...
Jeff: There's so many different digital wallets. You've got to think about security. You can buy the asset and keep hold of it. Then, you need to make sure that it's securely, digitally stored offline.
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: Technically nobody can hack into it.
Adam: Yep.
Jeff: You can buy seriously expensive digital wallet hardware systems or you can just have an app on the phone. There are perfectly good ones that you can use. I was telling you a second ago, we are also adding ... At Learn to Trade, we're very progressive. A lot to keep ... The trading feels all very progressive in moving forward when new things come out.
Hiring the right people. You know, Jeffrey, 27 years of experience in trading and in the markets. Just a general badass. We've got him on the trading floor now. So we've got those expertise and he's been doing crypto for quite some time.
I've got another guy that's literally ... I met him on a super yacht. He was one of the staff on a super yacht. We were out for the day, what, what, what?! We got to talking and he said, "What do you guys do?" And I said "Well, we're traders." He started telling me about himself. He's tripled his initial investment in less than a year. He's just purely taught himself. He's actually the one that's given me the main advice on how to set out so you buy the physical ... I keep saying physical ...
David: Yeah.
Jeff: The asset.
David: Yeah.
Jeff: Itself.
David: It's a tricky one, isn't it?
Jeff: We've got those expertise as well. All I would advise anyone to do is to talk to the right people. How do you find the right people? You've got to just start having conversations.
Adam: On the beginning of your point there as well, I think a lot of people have thought, "The technology is in its infancy stage, it has got the potential to be hacked."
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: The block chain in terms of technology ... Block chain is the driver, it's the technology, it's the bare foundations of where all these cryptos sit. That's the language people are using to use these coins. Block chain is built to essentially be controlled by people.
Jeff: Yes.
Adam: It's not meant to be ... It's basically impregnable by theory.
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: Where people need to be wary of is probably where their coins were over there getting evolved in sieves. Like you said, there's hard wallets. There's digital wallets ...
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: There's exchanges. Probably a tip ... This is just a personal thing, but maybe a tip ... If you're holding it for the long term and you just want to get involved and have a bit of fun ...
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: On this investment, probably best to keep it off an exchange. Something which is ...
Jeff: Yeah, detached and offline.
Adam: Like a hard wallet. Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: And don't lose the key.
Adam: Yeah. Exactly right.
Jeff: I have some horror stories. Somebody that bought loads of bitcoins when they were nothing, like 10 pounds ... I'm obviously English, so this is going back some time. They've lose their digital key to get to them. They're sitting on a small fortune.
Adam: Yeah.
Jeff: They can't get to it.
Adam: That's just so annoying.
Jeff: You would be punching yourself hard.
Adam: Yeah.
David: Or very hard.
Jeff: Anybody out there, don't lose your keys.
Adam: I think ...
Jeff: Because there is no locksmith.
Adam: There isn't, is there?
Jeff: No.
Adam: Put it in a bank vault. There's on Castlereagh Street. Stick it in there on a USB stick.
Jeff: Yeah.
Adam: They'd be happy to do that. They'd be happy to put it there.
David: I think maybe a nice sort of tie for this is what's 2018 looking like here? We had an absolute stinker of a year last year. I'm just purely talking growth in the market and the exposure to it. Were you looking for the same again? Were you looking for more coins to take surface? Or were you looking for some of these ... The top five to maybe race ahead and some of the grandfather ones such as Bitcoin to sort of fall behind?
Adam: Absolutely.
Jeff: I think the most important thing to consider is that something that goes up one thousand percent a week isn't going to do that forever.
Adam: Yes.
Jeff: It doesn't matter what it is.
David: Yeah. Big time.
Jeff: I think your point about the top of the pack kind of racing away is what's going to happen this year and going forward. That is my position on this entire market is that the top ... I don't really look outside of the top 10 simply because the other ones have lesser of an important use. Most of them are used for Facebook games.
Adam: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff: Not really valuable, right?
Adam: Yeah.
Jeff: Unless you play Facebook games. Back to what we were talking about before is the actual physical use for Bitcoins is that Amazon is now accepting Bitcoin for payment.
Adam: Yeah, that's huge.
Jeff: It's massive. Amazon is one of the biggest retailers in the world.
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: I think I read somewhere that Bitcoin is now accepted in more places than Turkish Lira is, which is a real currency.
Adam: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff: As much as it's funny because it's the Turkish Lira, but I mean, that's kind of the way to put it. When you look at it down the track and when you walk into a shop and they say, "We accept MasterCard, Visa card," some of them now accept PayPal ...
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: That Bitcoin symbol is going to be there, but there's going to be 1200 other symbols.
Adam: Yeah, we've all seen it as well popping up over the last couple of years even. Let's say 2018 is going to be a lot more of those stickers stuck on windows as well.
Jeff: Even PayPal's pushing down that, as well, right?
Adam: Yeah?
Jeff: I get emails from them all the time ...
David: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff: Saying buy your coffee with PayPal. Like, no. They're all for different things. Where did I see one for dentists the other day? Dentacoin or something ...
David: Dentacoin!
Jeff: Like that? Pay for your ...
David: Yeah.
Jeff: Fillings with Dentacoin. Whatever.
David: I think ...
Jeff: Why wouldn't you use cash? I don't get that.
David: Well, this is the thing. Dentacoin!
Adam: Sounds great!
Jeff: Whatever it was called! I was like, "Well, that's funny." Are you going to carry around like, "Hmm, I need to get myself some Dentacoin so I can look after my teeth."
Adam: They sold those ...
Jeff: Then it's Spectaclecoin down the track, of course.
David: Oh, of course, you know. Underwearcoin.
Jeff: Underwearcoin.
Adam: Coffeecoin?!
David: Coffeecoin.
Jeff: Coffeecoin. Coffeecoin might actually be useful.
Adam: The list is endless, it could go anywhere, couldn't it?
David: That's a great conversation started to the whole world of ICO's. I don't want to go into too much detail ...
Adam: Yeah, that's a whole other subject ...
David: We'll do that next time.
Adam: Tune in for next week!
David: There are so ... This is probably the other thing I'd like to solve. This is no [inaudible 00:23:27]. ICO's out there. There's hundreds if not thousands cropping up and there's only going to be more. Do your research on those things. There's so many opportunities where you can really take advantage of, I think. In the ICO space, these aren't regulated, these aren't ...
Adam: They are coming out for ... Was it Japan ... Well pretty much everyone, they've come down on ICO's hardcore. Again ...
Jeff: Trying to make them illegal.
Adam: You could ...
David: For good reasons, as well.
Adam: Yeah. I understand [inaudible 00:23:58] otherwise, they're just popping up all over the place. Chaircoin because you want to buy chairs.
David: Yeah.
Adam: Do you know what I mean?
David: Steer away. Steer away from those. If you do want to get involved, just do the research real good for that.
Adam: It's a bit like stocks. Do you just buy lots of random stocks in stuff? Or do you have to invest in what you enjoy?
David: Yeah, exactly. Right.
Adam: That's really important. What you know about, that's important. It is like buying and selling shares.
David: That's a great ...
Adam: It's exactly the same.
David: Yeah, that's a great analogy for that.
Adam: It's exactly the same.
David: Yeah.
Jeff: You'll probably find that your success rate on ICO's is about the same as IPO's?
David: Yeah.
Adam: Yeah, because most initial ...
Jeff: You would ... Public offerings. Probably about five percent of them go well?
David: Yeah.
Jeff: Straight off the bat. ICO's are about the same.
David: Yeah, and IPO's have gone for a little bit more paperwork as well to get those things up into the market, where as this is just like, "Wake up one day. ICO it." [inaudible 00:24:50] things like that can happen. This has been a really good conversation. We've probably gone a bit over time, but I would definitely want to do more of these with as well. I'm sure our listeners have enjoyed this.
I always like to end ... Sometimes I read off scores and it said "Today Bitcoin is worth seven hundred dollars," or "Today's bitcoin is worth twelve thousand." Today, Bitcoin is worth fourteen thousand Australian dollars, so, let's see how we go in the next weeks, months, years. We'll track and see how things happen on this side of things, too.
Jeff: Yeah, cool.
David: Awesome! Thanks guys.
Adam: Thank you!
Jeff: Thanks for having us.
Adam: Cheers!
David: So, thanks for tuning in to the Nest Egg podcast, and especially on this special edition for CryptoCurrently. We hope you've been enjoying the content over the week and continue to do so. Be sure to check out the guys over here at Learn to Trade down in the links below. Also, we hope to have many more conversations around this topic for 2018, so don't feel like it's finishing just yet. You can find us over at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., or you can also follow our Twitter, Facebook, and all social media such as LinkedIn as well. Thanks for tuning in. Speak to you soon.